Questions and Answers with the Inside Gitmo team

What's it like to work on a complex book project like Inside Gitmo? Want to get some behind-the-scenes thoughts from the author and research team? Find out what they think of the book project, how they worked together, and what they liked best - and least - about the book.

The following 13 questions were sent separately to author Gordon Cucullu (GC) and researchers John Rudisill (JR) and Avery Johnson (AJ). Their candid answers have been compiled and color coded below:

1. What part of researching the book did you find most challenging?
2. What part of researching the book did you find most enjoyable?
3. What is your favorite part of the book?
4. Was there something that you wish was in the book that the publisher may have deleted?
5. Was there something in the book that was especially difficult for you to address?
6. What is the core message that you personally hope readers take away from the book?
7. How was it as author working with researchers? And vice versa, as researchers working with this author?
8. This is a controversial topic. How do you react to the inevitable criticism that you are just a puppet for the Bush administration?
9. You said you did not observe or uncover any cases of torture and abuse. Were you carefully guided around such happenings? Did you check all sources?
10. Do you feel sorry or have any empathy for the detainees that are kept there without hope of release or even fair trial?
11. Is this book a disguised attack on Islam?
12. If you were to work on the book longer is there anything you would want to change?
13. What was the hardest thing for you about actually producing this book?

1. What part of researching the book did you find most challenging?

GC: Getting access and interviews and putting it all together. The story that at first seemed very simple, turned out to be extraordinarily complex involving aspects as diverse as selection of Guantanamo, policies, torture and abuse, medical issues, housing and feeding, legal processes, finding out the truth behind a veil of classified information on the one hand and propaganda on the other, and a myriad of other subjects.

JR: The most challenging was the delay in getting the book published.  It seemed that it took forever for this very critical and timely information to get out. I hope it is not too late.

AJ: Reconstructing Gordon's hard-copy research basically from scratch, and adding a lot of material that he hadn't been aware of. Chuck Martin and I were originally approached to do "some" supporting research and source document referencing for the Inside Gitmo project in Spring 2008. I flew to Florida to see what Gordon had been working with... and found that he had avalanches of papers and printouts everywhere. They were all over the floors, stuffed in file folders stacked up in bookshelves, an armchair, the couch, and in boxes in the hallway.

Then he explained the assignment along the lines of "Look, wow! Here's an article about... oh, this might be for Chapter 3 somewhere, yes it must be for the part about the INS agent at the Orlando airport, or maybe... no, that was in Chapter 2. Let me see... hey, wait a minute, here's a really facinating charge sheet, check out this item on page 5, we have to footnote it somewhere. Well, anyway, that's your job, what you all have to do is go through these documents and add them as references in the appropriate paragraphs in the manuscript. OK?" 

He was very earnest and clearly looking forward to having all those materials pulled together, although I really thought he must be joking. None of the documents were archived electronically on his hard drives, everything was hardcopy. I couldn't exactly drag his entire office back to my crew on the west coast, so instead months were spent re-documenting and confirming his original research from scratch over the web. Luckily we found a lot of previously overlooked material that he later integrated into the final manuscript and thus produced a much better book in the end. The process also taught Gordon a lot about electronic documents management systems, he's a quick study and just needed the right tools and techniques.

2. What part of researching the book did you find most enjoyable?

GC: Meeting and getting to know the people on the ground who are involved with the Guantanamo process. Making friendships, listening to their experiences, getting their help in putting together a full, complete a picture as possible of the events and daily life at Guantanamo.

JR: Meeting the young men and women that have the very hard task of dealing with terrorists on a daily basis and performing their jobs in a highly professional manner.

AJ: Discovering obscure government reports, transcripts, and interviews that fleshed out Gordon and Rudy's findings. Things like the 400+ page FBI report on what their agents observed in the early days of Gitmo, the Substitution for the Testimony of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad (turns out 9/11 mastermind KSM really couldn't stand Muhammad al Qahtani at all, that was interesting), and the "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh's own hair raising account of the Qala-i-Jangi prison uprising in Afgahistan (many of the relatively few survivors of that self-inflicted horror -- they started that riot and murdered CIA agent Mike Spann -- were later sent to Gitmo). It was like reading a thriller a day, extremely disturbing yet fascinating material.

3. What is your favorite part of the book?

GC: From a narrative standpoint, telling the story of the suicides in Camp I in June 2006 was certainly the most dramatic. I also am comfortable with the critique and recommendations section at the end that addresses the difficult challenges we face not only in dealing with the physical side of Guantanamo, but ultimately in how we are going to deal in the future with these types of non-state detainees and terrorists.

JR: The description of the attack on Yankee block Camp IV - we toured the camp the day after the incident - and the professional response of our brave troops at GITMO.

AJ: Probably the chapter on the detainee hunger strikes and asymmetrical warfare behind the wire. I'm always astounded over accusations that force feeding people who are purposely starving themselves in the name of drawing attention to political or religious causes is somehow "torture." Chapter 18 of the al Qaeda manual (the Manchester Manual) on how to behave in prison and detention centers clearly calls for hunger strikes (albeit with some warnings). Al Qaeda and other murderous extremist groups know darn well that hunger strikes create a Catch 22 for authorities faced with either force feeding or allowing detainees to slowly kill themselves. Gordon's account of hunger striking detainees at Guantanamo Bay -- and what a trap it is for command authorities, guards, and medical personnel  there -- is vivid and thought provoking, no matter what one's personal conclusions on the subject may ultimately turn out to be.

4. Was there something that you wish was in the book that the publisher may have deleted?

GC: I would have liked to have more about the interrogation routine kept in the manuscript. I was able to have exclusive interviews with interrogators and think that their words and deeds are most important to the story. However, I have an outstanding editor in Adam Bellow - one of the best in the business - and am not about to second-guess his literary judgment.

JR: No. I think it is a very comprehensive coverage of a seriously mis-reported subject.

AJ: There wasn't enough room left in the book to include the sections on the Geneva Conventions and related enemy combatant status debates, that was too bad. Gordon may get around to revising that material into a special feature on the Inside Gitmo companion website, though.

5. Was there something in the book that was especially difficult for you to address?

GC: Definitely the abuse that took place - albeit limited - in the late fall of 2002, primarily centering around Muhammad al Qahtani. This was painful to research and write because it seemed to lend truth to the accusations of torture and abuse. However, on reflection, I think that it was absolutely critical that we address this isolated instance frankly and honestly, if for no other reason than to acknowledge that abuse did occur but more importantly, that it was corrected and has not been repeated. To leave it out would have been disingenuous on my part. My goal was to paint the entire picture: the good, the bad, and the ugly. And we did our best to accomplish that in this book.

JR: The abuse and attacks on these young kids that have the job of dealing with these detainees on a daily basis.

AJ: Yes, the early fights between the military and the FBI at Gitmo that led to some very bad decisions on how to handle one of the detainees. Neither outfit was prepared or equipped to immediately shift away from their specialities and deal with al Qaeda and the Taliban. The military was geared towards conventional warfare against hostile nations, certainly not fighting individuals who looked like ordinary civilians. They didn't have the policies and systems in place for interrogating such individuals under the very desperate circumstances in the days immediately following 9/11. Meanwhile, the FBI initially approached everything with a domestic crime scene mentality, they hadn't made the institutional shift towards intelligence gathering yet. They were great at questioning criminals, but the detainees weren't ordinary criminals and most had received extensive training on how to resist questioning. In the early months the arguments between the military and the FBI at Gitmo created a chaotic situation that could have, and should have, been avoided.

6. What is the core message that you personally hope readers take away from the book?

GC: First and foremost that American military men and women perform heroically in a terrible place under appalling work conditions with little appreciation or gratitude from ordinary Americans who are unaware of their sacrifice. I went there fearing the worse and found some of the most dedicated, slandered group of people ever who are standing guard over men dedicated to our destruction. I hope this opens the eyes of many of our fellow citizens as to just how much we owe these soldiers and sailors.

Second, that closing Guantanamo is a much more complex issue than simply shutting down a facility. The potential ramifications for modifications to our judicial system, housing detainees on US soil, and possibly releasing some into our society are so fraught with danger that the issues must be debated openly, unemotionally, and with prudence. Sadly, I am not optimistic that such rational discourse will ever take place in our highly charged, politically polarized society.

JR: That the abuse and terror is directed toward the guards and not the detainees, and that none of the hundreds of media people that have visited GITMO seemed to have discovered this fact.. It reminds me of a research project that you already know what you what the answer to be and if it does not come out that way you simply ignore it or change it to your preconceived notion. I think the media are convinced that these detainees are tortured and abused. When they find that there is terror and abuse directed against the guards, they ignore it or excuse it. The facts simply do not fit the answer they want, so they tell it the way they think it ought to be, not as it is.

AJ: American citizens and people around the world have been duped by the lack of information about what really goes on at Guantanamo Bay. Gitmo isn't a "stain" on America's reputation, what's really stained our image is the sensational, slanted, biased, and often vicious articles and reports written by people who have continually refused to look at the entire facility for what it really is today. Yes, the idea of holding enemy combatants is distasteful and unpleasant, but it has to be done. And one should remember that other Coalition Forces nations -- Canada, Australia, the UK, Germany, France, Spain and many others -- were and some still are actively engaged in capturing terrorists and insurgents, yet they aren't running their own detention facilities. Instead, they have the luxury of handing over their battlefield captives over to us. Then some of these same countries -- our allies -- whip around criticizing America over Guantanamo Bay after they've tossed the burden of housing, interrogating, servicing, and trying the detainees into our laps.

Core message: it's a tough job, America has really gotten the short end of the stick in the reputation department for taking it on, and the public should realize that labeling Gitmo as somehow "evil" before simply throwing it away isn't going to solve the much larger challenges and issues at hand.

7. How was it as author working with researchers? And vice versa, as researchers working with this author?

GC: I loved working with my team. Rudy never let me slack off or be distracted. He added another set of eyes and ears to the on-the-ground research, opened up a new area of medical concerns that I might have not understood, and was great in interviews. I have only extravagant praise for my West Coast research team led by Avery. Under her direction an amazing array of original documents, reports, commentary, and non-governmental reports were brought to light and made part of the book. She insisted on meticulous documentation and led me in new directions to link supporting documentation to key points. The book is a much more solid work with these additions and totally different than the original draft manuscripts I wrote.

JR: Gordon was great to work with except that he continually made me go to this place called the Jerk House to eat jerk chicken almost every day we were at GITMO.

AJ: I've never worked with anyone as inquisitive, open, and intense as Gordon. He's the kind of guy who's always reading two or three books at a time, always thinking up new questions, always on the phone digging out fresh information on whatever the topic of the day happens to be. He's a tough taskmaster, holds himself and everyone around him to very high standards, but is also flexible enough to adjust his presentation and techniques when warranted. I got a lot of grey hairs while working on this book, although I'm quite sure he thought it was me who caused most of his grey hairs on his head. We collectively pushed ourselves very hard, Gordon taught me how to play "Red Team Blue Team," he definitely learned a lot about building electronic archives and using computers to their full advantage, and in the end I think the final product really shows it.

8. This is a controversial topic. How do you react to the inevitable criticism that you are just a puppet for the Bush administration?

GC: Aside from the first trip to Guantanamo that was part of a Defense Department media outreach program, I paid for all the subsequent trips and research expenses from personal funds. Also there are parts of the book that are critical of how Guantanamo was organized and operated, especially in the early months. Not once during my research was I asked or required to receive Pentagon or government agency approval or review for anything I wrote. In fact, the attitude was go where you want, see what you see, speak to whom you will, and write the truth as you perceive it. US officials will see the book at the same time that the general public get a copy.

JR: I would like to be judged on facts and evidence, and I think this book has more than ample evidence to disprove this weak accusation.  We have bent over backwards showering readers with factual information and trust them to draw their own conclusions.

AJ: Um, what a joke. The only contact I've had with any government agency in the past five years has been when I've sent checks to the IRS.

9. You said you did not observe or uncover any cases of torture and abuse. Were you carefully guided around such happenings? Did you check all sources?

GC: I was, frankly, a difficult, high maintenance visitor. I continually insisted that we add new venues at the last minute to the schedule, see people involved in all aspects of the facility, and speak to military and civilians privately. More than once I accepted the offer to go anywhere I wanted on a no-notice basis. After walking the grounds of every facility and camp, speaking to scores of military and civilians at all levels and ranks, and popping in unannounced, I am confident that I got the truth.

JR: No we were not carefully guided around.  The people we interviewed at GITMO thought that torture and abuse were counterproductive to information gathering. All of the interrogations we observed were simple conversations, ususally with food and drink provided to the detainee by the interrogator.

AJ: There was one abusive case during the early days at the Gitmo detention facility in 2002, before Gordon and Rudy first visited. That case is documented and discussed in the book, and it was also throughly covered by the FBI and the military in very separate, exhaustive reports. I think people will be interested to read about not just what happened, but exactly why it happened. It was dispicable and the fact is it won't be possible to prevent cases like that in the future if people to not systematically and honestly learn about the circumstances that led to it. One should further note that torture techniques like waterboarding were never used inside Guantanamo Bay, although at least one detainee (KSM) was subjected to that before arriving in Cuba.

10. Do you feel sorry or have any empathy for the detainees that are kept there without hope of release or even fair trial?

GC: Too bad they are there, but better that they are not attacking me or my country. I am sorry for the aberrant ideology that has consumed these men and led them to lead lives of destruction and terror. But that is a separate issue. As far as legal processes, they have more than any enemy in our history has ever been given. Look at the cases of how the German saboteurs were handled in World War II to get some idea of what quick justice would have yielded. Many have been released. Many have also returned to the fight. That is an important fact we all need to keep in mind.

JR: No, not in the least. I'll tell you that I do feel sorry for the 18 year old female guard that had urine, feces, semen, vomit, and spit thrown in her face and then had to return the next day to the block and do her job all over again. I feel sorry for guards at Christmas having to deliver Christmas cards by the thousands to terrorists from misguided Americans, who said how sorry they are that these poor souls are at GITMO. And for the sad fact that few thank you cards come to our young guards who are asked to perform an almost impossible job with no thanks or appreciation - over even basic understanding - for what America is asking of them.

AJ: No, the detainees put themselves in that situation by taking up arms on the battlefields in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere, by preparing to kill civilians at the al Qaeda training camps, and sometimes by bombing and slaughtering their way down their own personal paths to a place like Guantanamo. The vast majority of the people in Afghanistan and Iraq obviously didn't do these things, and just like them, the detainees had personal choices to make. The detainees made the wrong choices and were just lucky they weren't killed out in the field themselves. Now they've had years of playing board games, reading books,  playing soccer, and assaulting guards at Gitmo, so it's difficult to empathize with them.

As for those who have been cleared but can't be returned to their home countries where they would be subjected to torture, Gitmo is much more comfortable and humane than what they'd get from their own.

All that said, I certainly hope that their individual cases will be addressed and resolved in an acceptable, logical, and security conscience manner once and for all very soon. The problem remains: no matter where they are housed, what is the best approach for accomplishing that?

11. Is this book a disguised attack on Islam?

GC: Hardly. Islam is struggling with its own identity. Does it come into the 21st century and be part of the world community or continue to isolate itself. Those are challenges that Muslims will work out to their satisfaction over the upcoming years. I hope they make the right decisions, but ultimately it is their decision to make. On the other hand, every detainee at Guantanamo is a Muslim, and many of the worst - especially the Saudis and Yemenis - are members of a virulent sub-sect of Islam that is sworn to our destruction. That is a cold fact and ignoring or minimizing it will not make it go away.

JR: No It is a comprehensive project on Gitmo. Cuba and Islam can stand or fall on their own merits.

AJ: This is a book on Guantanamo Bay, not Islam. What the heck do Gordon or Rudy or I really know about Islam from the inside anyway? Nothing at all. So let the imams explain why the Gitmo detainees are all followers of a cause that they claim to be in the name of Islam, something that is being twisted from what followers say was intended from the start. There's wonderful Muslims out there, a number are close friends of mine, and they want no part of those who insist that killing people -- judged by mere fellow human beings to be "infidels" -- is part of some larger divine "earn your way to paradise" program. But that's not my motivation for signing on to this book project. Again, loud and clear: Islam isn't the subject of this book, period.

12. If you were to work on the book longer is there anything you would want to change?

GC: Ha, that's the problem with writing: one never is satisfied and continually revises, adds, deletes, and rearranges to try to achieve that perfect product. With the help of my research teams and able editor I got the book finished. Maybe that's the most difficult moment for an author. To say "it's done," and mean it. Overall, I'm proud of the work. It took 3 1/2 years and thousands of hours to produce and I expect it will stand on its own merits.

JR: No.

AJ: the news wires and TV newscasts are covering rapidly changing Gitmo developments almost every day now, particularly since President Elect Barak Obama has vowed to shut the facility down as quickly as possible. It's painful that we couldn't include all the latest developments in the book, and that's why the InsideGitmo.com companion website has been established.

13. What was the hardest thing for you about actually producing this book?

GC: That's easy. Enforcing the self-discipline needed to sit in front of the computer every day and type words on the screen, always fighting the doubt that even if I did it would it be good enough. Also, integrating data in subjects that were new to me - Geneva Convention, legal conundrums, medical issues, and much more, into a smooth-flowing, easy reading, but highly informative text. A non-fiction writer is bound to educate and to entertain. It's a tough challenge but I am confident that we caught that elusive mix in this book.

JR: The time line when the book was finished and all the hoops we had to jump through to get this book done. I was so frustrated over the delays that I finally quit telling people that the book is coming out soon because I felt like the little boy crying wolf.  It seem ever time we had a date it was moved.  It was very frustrating to see something so timely to be continually pushed back. It is really going to be satisfying to all of us to finally have a Paul Harvey: "The Rest of the Story" moment come out about GITMO.

AJ: Responding to this followup questionnaire!

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